17 Comments to 'Once you let teachers open that gay Pandora’s box…'
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Once you let teachers open that gay Pandora’s box…
Posted By katie allison granju
Terry Frank says more people should have supported Stacey Campfield’s failed legislation to prevent teachers from mentioning that gay people exist:
For the record, Democrats don’t seem to mind if the issues are raised to your kindergartner, despite the fact that we have graduates of Tennessee schools that can’t even read. They argue Campfield is just chasing ghosts.
The reality is, that in states like Maryland and Mass., once such sensitive and controversial topics are introduced to your child through the school curriculum, there is no going back. Courts are siding with the schools, not the parents. Don’t believe me, just check out the NEA’s own website.
Campfield’s preemptive measure, with his fellow Republican support, was smart. I hope he and other legislators bring it back next year.
The NEA and TEA spend a lot of time and money ensuring “separation of church and state” but they sure don’t mind toying with value issues themselves. Oh, but it’s under the guise of safety!
Mar 5th, 2008
Katie: Your line that the bill was to “prevent teachers from mentioning that gay people exist” is the type of front-loaded rhetoric that surrounds issues like this. The legislation is to prevent school personnel from PROVIDING INSTRUCTION about sexual matters that are better left to the child’s parents.
I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek, David.
-Katie
Look up the bill:
“No public elementary or middle school shall provide any instruction or materials discussing sexual orientation other than heterosexuality.”
The mere mention that homosexuality exists would be in violation of the proposed law.
I have children in the public schools. They “instruction” is related to teaching TOLERANCE, which I think is a pretty good thing. If you don’t believe that your children should be taught tolerance, take them out and home school them. All the more reason that I, as an employer, would probably never hire a home-schooled person, because they have not been taught the skills to cope with other viewpoints and get along with people who are different than them. That’s cool, go ahead and socially cripple your kids, just make sure to teach them to stay off the government dole when nobody will hire your sad, pathetic hate-filled offspring.
Or (more likely), they’ll figure out on their own in their 20’s how you’ve sold them a pack of lies, move out, and have nothing more to do with you, leaving you to stare at the walls while you listen to Rush and Sean on the radio in your grey years.
My, My, My calling…: You seem to be a bit umm…intolerant of my views on this matter. How about this: you take your kids and teach them about sexuality in your home, and I will do the same in mine. I, along with my parents, and their parents taught us respect for other people -period. No need to use the GLBTQ angle to indoctrinate kids on how “out of touch” their parents are.
Just a cursory examination will reveal how “tolerance” teaching in public schools has now moved to advocacy. Seriously, with the academic challenges facing TN students, do you want schools PROVIDING this type of instruction to elementary and middle schools?
You really are missing the point.
“you take your kids and teach them about sexuality…”
I love how you change the subject. The program you and Campfield attack is NOT teaching sexuality. It’s teaching tolerance, that’s ALL. If you don’t believe that this country was founded on the concept of tolerance of other people’s beliefs, then you are living in a different country that the country founded by Jefferson, Adams, et al.
I would love to see ANY proof you have as to _Tennessee_ schools teaching advocacy. Provide documented (e.g., not anecdotal “I heard it from my third cousin”) evidence, or shut your piehole.
I suggest you read the link below to find out what Campfield has been trying to ban. If you disagree with this, I feel sorry for you and your kids (and if you don’t have kids, I would hope you keep it that way)
http://www.nea.org/schoolsafety/glbt.html
Katie: I meant to respond to your explanation that it was tongue in cheek. Agreed. My point in the post is that those are the types of front-loading of the discussion. Some guilt on both sides there, I guess. Anyway, thanks for the forum. Realizing that this isn’t a chat site, and I sure don’t want to incur rent: If I might make one more response to callingbsondavid, I would appreciate it. It’s getting late, and if that’s acceptable, I will post in the morning. (see you then calling….)
Still waiting on your proof… backing off, are we?
Nope. Very busy. How about a real name?
My name is not the issue. Your BS and lack of proof is. If this is such a big problem, why is it you AND Campfield can’t seem to cough up ONE demonstrated instance in Tennessee? If this is a rampant problem, you should be able to google it or find it reported in some paper, no?
Until such proof comes to light, Campfield is wasting my tax dollars, and you’re a LIAR. I’m still waiting.
Calling…. And anyone else joining us: What an interesting exchange this has been.
I have not, nor has Rep. Campfield, to my knowledge, ever alleged that there is “such a big problem” (at present) with the material and/or instruction which I find objectionable being provided by TN schools. You and some members of the legislature have seized upon this diversionary tactic to aver that there is therefore no need for this preventative measure. Rep. Campfield has a letter from a k-2 (I believe) teacher in TN who affirms that the material is in some of our schools, and is being provided. He and I have received anecdotal information from parents that their children have been exposed to it. However, that is not the point. Since the TN Dept. of Ed, in cooperation with the TN Office of Safe Schools, PFLAG, and others, has regularly provided conferences with instruction from PFLAG representatives, and materials from PFLAG, GLSEN, GLAAD, etc… specifically for TN school teachers, principals, board members, superintendents and others, it is not at all sensible to think that the information provided is being ignored. The methods utilized in TN (i.e. “tolerance”) are identical to those utilized in Mass., CA, Maryland, and many other areas. It is therefore logical to believe that the outcome in TN will likely be the same. One needs only to research online where this path has led in those areas to see where TN parents will eventually find themselves.
You emphatically stated that the instruction and materials teach “tolerance, that’s ALL.” I respectfully offer that even if it is ALL at present (and I seriously doubt that it is), that’s not ALL that is intended. The NEA is simply being disingenuous – I have read their website, your posted statement AND the resolutions adopted at their national convention.
“Tolerance” is simply a Trojan horse:
GLSEN’s Executive Director Kevin Jennings speaking about how he was able to delude the Massachusetts legislature into adopting the pro-homosexual agenda for the schools in their state. “In Massachusetts the effective reframing of this issue was the key to the success of the Governor’s Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth. We immediately seized upon the opponent’s calling card-safety-and explained how homophobia represents a threat to students’ safety by creating a climate where violence, name-calling, health problems, and suicide are common. Titling our report ‘Making Schools Safe for Gay and Lesbian Youth,’ we automatically threw our opponents onto the defensive and stole their best line of attack. This framing short-circuited their arguments and left them back-pedaling from day one.” (Kevin Jennings, “Winning the Culture War,” The Massachusetts News, “Governor’s Commission for Gay Youth Retreats to ‘Safety’ and ‘Suicide,’ December 2000)
(GLSEN is the Gay Lesbian Straight Education Network) and:
In late October of 1998, GLSEN held a “Queer” Education Conference in Oakland, CA. The conference leaders told the assembled that “the younger you start, the better,” and urged homosexuals to begin teaching “gay-affirming” lessons to kindergarten students. Jaki Williams, a GLSEN activist at the Packer Collegiate School in New York, said that kindergarteners are “developing their superego” and “that’s when the saturation process needs to begin.”
Parents, Friends, and Families of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) launched a national campaign called “From Our House to the Schoolhouse,” which “represents the next step in PFLAG’s ongoing nationwide commitment to our number one priority, creating an accepting school environment for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender students, teachers and staff.” (www.pflag.org/education/schools/ourhouse.html “We recognize that school s are ‘ground zero’ in our efforts…” http://www.pflag.org/education/schools.html)
Leif Mitchell, community educator/trainer for Planned Parenthood of Connecticut and a GLSEN National board member, in a presentation to Massachusetts teachers and students explaining “Strategies for Combating the ‘Religious Wrong’ in your community:” “Focus on Violence Prevention. Always go back to the issues of safety to explain why Gay/Straight Alliances need to be formed. Violence helps us! It is very important to tie the Religious Right to hatred.” (GLSEN Teach Out! Conference at Tufts University, Boston) (how tolerant of them, by the way)
These are only a couple of examples to show why this legislation to firmly establish that parents (not schools) need to be in control of the type of information regarding sexuality that their children are exposed to. And it IS about sexuality. The GLBTQ advocates know it. They admit it. So should we.
Margot E. Ables, Coordinator, HIV/AIDS Program, Massachusetts Department of Education and self-proclaimed lesbian: “We always feel like we are fighting against people who say publicly, who say privately, that being queer is not at all about sex…we believe otherwise. We think that sex is central to every single one of us, and particularly queer youth.” (Presenter at GLSEN Teach Out! Conference at Tufts University, Boston, recorded by Scott T. Whiteman, Peabody, Massachusetts, Affidavit re: GLSEN/BOSTON conference, April 18, 2000)
According to homosexual writer and activist Michelangelo Signorile, the goal of homosexuals is: “To fight for same-sex marriage and its benefits and then, once granted, redefine the institution of marriage completely, to demand the right to marry not as a way of adhering to society’s moral codes but rather to debunk a myth and radically alter an archaic institution. . . . The most subversive action lesbian and gay men can undertake . . . is to transform the notion of ’family’ entirely.” (Michelangelo Signorile, “Bridal Wave,” Out, December 1994.)
Paula Ettelbrick, former legal director of the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, has stated, “Being queer is more than setting up house, sleeping with a person of the same gender, and seeking state approval for doing so. . . Being queer means pushing the parameters of sex, sexuality, and family, and in the process transforming the very fabric of society.” (Paula Ettelbrick, quoted in William B. Rubenstein, “Since When Is Marriage a Path to Liberation?” Lesbians, Gay Men, and the Law, (New York: The New Press, 1993), pp. 398, 400
Once again, understand that this effort is proactive. We are foolish to wait until our school systems look like those in the aformentioned areas before we act. I appreciate Rep. Campfield taking the initiative on behalf of parents in TN.
In conclusion, I am somewhat relieved to hear that your kids’ schools are (only) teaching “tolerance” to them. It is apparent that they are not learning it from your example. Your venomous comments about homeschoolers and their parents, your use of (dare I say hate-filled) invectives throughout your postings, your telling me: “shut your piehole”, and your general online demeanor are revealing. I think that anyone reading our exchange can easily determine who is likely raising “pathetic hate-filled offspring” (your words, not mine), and who believes & practices tolerance and respect for others who disagree.
Adieu.
So, let me see if I have this right. You are now suddenly agreeing that:
(a) They are NOT teaching anything related to sexuality in Tennessee
(b) They are NOT advocating students to adopt homosexual lifestyle in Tennessee
Your objection is that the information on tolerance is being provided by a group that, in their other activities, are a pro gay-rights group. Do I understand you correctly?
You feel that the teaching of a moral lesson (tolerance) is bad because of the group bringing it up, while the teaching of a moral lesson by, say, a Christian group, that would be OK.
You proceed to provide out-of-context quotations regarding programs in other states (not TN) and people not operating in Tennessee (PFLAG and GLSEN are not the same group, sorry).
But let’s take the one PFLAG quote you provided:
“We recognize that school s are ‘ground zero’ in our efforts…”
Efforts to WHAT? If you read the rest of the quote, you realize it would say:
“…in our efforts to stop homophobia in the classroom and create safe learning environments for all students.”
Hmm- that’s what we call LYING by omission.
You then switch the GLSEN which, again, isn’t involved in Tennessee school programs (if you have evidence to the contrary, please provide- as far as I have researched, it’s just PFLAG). And, if you want to mention GLSEN, you might not want to omit one of the reasons they pursue the safety issue so vigorously. A 15-year old kid was MURDERED in his SCHOOL less than a month ago because he was gay (http://www.rememberinglawrence.org). But I guess the death of a kid means nothing to you, because he was gay and I guess to you that’s god’s vengeance.
Then you quote several gay activist on general rights/advocacy, something that has NOTHING to do with the school issues, since these people are not involved in the school programs. Nice attempt at distraction, but it didn’t work. But it’s a good demonstration of your deep-rooted homophobia.
So, let’s get back to schools- NOTHING demonstrated as an issue in Tennessee schools, just in your mind and Campfield’s mind. For you to say we should ignore a real safety issue in our schools is callous and belies a blackness of the heart. God calls on us to love everyone and protect everyone, especially the weakest. My children are taught to respect the dignity of every human being. I don’t care if your kids are taught otherwise, but if they are going to sit in school with my kids and everyone else’s kids, they will be taught not to tease, bully, abuse, or kill other kids for any reason. That’s a pretty basic thing, and I’m sorry you seem to have such a hard time with the concept.
Lastly, you took my statement out of context. The original context was nothing but pity and concern for how your children would survive in the real world. It’s quite clear to any other reader that I did not express intolerance or disrespect, but if you need to fake indignation to try to score points, feel free.
No, you still do not have it right: and it looks like you probably never will. I have given you enough information to understand that there is an agenda being carried out here.
Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen laid out the strategy in the 80’s. “Drive the wedge in narrow end first”, and “get the camel’s nose under the tent and the rest will follow”. The school systems in the areas I mentioned are now enjoying “the rest”.
A Gay-Straight Alliance in CA recently sent an e-mail to it’s CA chapters stating: “In many schools, learning about LGBTQ issues takes the form of very necessary tolerance education where students are educated about the importance of not discriminating against each other. Tolerance education is an important first step, but we need to push further. Infuse LGBTQ curriculum into history, social science, and literature classes”.
I reiterate my point. “Tolerance” is not the objective. It is the narrow end of the wedge, the camel’s nose. The information I gave you is from the advocates themselves. The meaning is clear in each of them.
My kid has been taught not to tease, bully, abuse, or kill other kids for any reason. He has always been taught to respect others (that whole Golden Rule thing worked quite well even before we ever heard of the need for “tolerance” LGBTQ education). The introduction of GLBTQ issues was not necessary, and he is now a well-adjusted, successful young man. Your concern for how children of other parents like myself are being raised is unwarranted.
Your previous postings are clear. It is also clear that I’m wasting precious time with you on this matter. I will have no further comments. I bid you good day.
Did Marshall Kirk or does Hunter Madsen run or work for PFLAG? NO. So why call them into this?
By your logic, I can imprison you for having viewpoints or social correlation with Tim McVeigh. You might blow up a federal building, so let’s throw you under the jail now. Being a reasonable person, I know such logic is spurious, so I don’t try to pull that kind of crap.
And quit quoting other states. We’re talking about Tennessee. If Campfield were to propose legislation related to California schools, that’s another issue. Again, look at what’s being taught in Tennessee. The materials do NOT promote lifestyle, only tolerance, and tolerance requires some level of acceptance (not within your life or choices, but the acceptance that the other person has a right to their own choices).
That’s the real issue- the inability of you, Campfield, etc to accept other people’s choices. This is a matter of personal freedom, and when it comes to social freedoms, conservatives have no problem stomping all over people’s rights.
As John Stuart Mill said: “the right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.” Unless you can demonstrate how teaching tolerance and acceptance harms your kids, you and Campfield have no right to interfere with the State’s interests to protect children from assault and murder.
Schools are not teaching about homosexuality. I taught in Tennessee schools for five years, everything from high school to fifth grade to incarcerated juveniles. If teachers even mention something about sex, outside the confines of a sex ed class, they know that no later than the next day, the principal will be calling him/her into the office to have a little “chat” about all the parents that have been calling.
On the rare occasion that a student brings up the issue of homosexuality, either in reference to another student or about something that was watched onTV, the teacher will keep the class on task, and either have the student see the guidance counselor. principal, vice-principal,or school psychologist, depending on the seriousness and context in which the student brings up the issue.
Trust me, these days teachers barely have enough time to teach before it’s TCAP time.
Of course gay and lesbian lobbying groups are trying to influence governments. That’s what lobbying groups do.
The particular case in Mass. deals more with the apparent failure of the school system to follow state law requiring parental notification before discussing issues related to sex.
The biggest problem for the Mass. school system is its belief that talking about tolerance has to include discussions about what each persons “difference” involves. I disagree. You can teach children to be nice, to be friendly, and not to be mean, without having a discussion about each person’s differences. It’s called simple common decency.
What’s pushing the Mass. issue does have more to do with the gay and lesbian lobbying groups, and the belief of a judge in Mass. who believes the Mass. decision to recognize same-sex marriages requires schools to teach about that as a living arrangement.
Campfield is grandstanding by using his interpretation of an issue, which will have little impact on the state and his constituents, to generate media attention. His mission was successful.
“You can teach children to be nice, to be friendly, and not to be mean, without having a discussion about each person’s differences. It’s called simple common decency.”
I would agree with you completely.
Duke, you are absolutely correct that this is nothing more than yet another issue on which Campfield can grandstand and preen before the media. Also correct that this legislation will have little impact on the state’s citizens or our children. It will change nothing, save for engendering more hatred and intolerance towards those who happen to be gay.
I attempted to have Campfield explain exactly what he hopes to achieve with this bill, only to have him devolve the conversation into something worthy of the playgrounds he alludes to needing protection from mention of homosexuality, as he posted over and over on my blog post regarding my attempts to obtain an answer from him in a manner unworthy of any adult, much less a legislator.
Campfield has neither the intelligence, maturity nor integrity to hold the office he has. He needs to be voted OUT in the next election!
The link to the California “ban” on using “mother and father,” or “mom and dad,” is a clear misinterpretation of Senate Bill 777. The California bill was legislated to protect the civil rights of children.
Extreme right wing groups claimed that the law would result in “mom and dad” being banned in the classroom. It would do no such thing, because basically the bill just highlights the fact, long known by teachers for about the last twenty years, that a lot of kids don’t come from two parent families.
All the teachers I know in Knox County schools, use, when they are addressing the entire class “your parents or guardians,” because they know a lot of kids are being raised by just mom, just dad, an aunt, an uncle, or grandparents. It’s been done for years. Only when talking with a single student will teachers specifically refer to mom and dad, or just mom, just dad….
The law is known as the California Student Civil Rights Act.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_0751-0800/sb_777_bill_20071012_chaptered.html