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UPDATED: (Grand)parents’ rights?
Posted By katie allison granju
I was lucky enough to have (and still have) a really great relationship with my grandparents, who basically helped raise me. And my four children, too, have very involved, loving grandparents who play huge roles in their daily lives. I am a big fan of grandparents.
But as a parent myself, I believe the decision as to whether grandparents - or any individual who is not my child’s other legal parent - should have any relationship with my child should be my decision, not the court’s.
That’s why I was very surprised to see that conservative blogger David Oatney is supporting a campaign to change Tennessee law to allow grandparents the right to petition courts to have visitation with their grandchildren. If a parent does not want to allow grandparents access to his or her children, well then that’s unfortunate for the grandparent in question, but parental rights trump that misfortune, in my opinion.
And as conservatives are generally all about parents - not the courts or the schools or doctors or the “nanny state” - having ultimate say over how their children’s lives will be conducted, it really doesn’t make sense to me to hear a social conservative say he’s in favor allowing a grandparent and a judge to make an end run around a parent’s authority.
Your thoughts?
UPDATED: Another very conservative blogger apparently agrees with Oatney.
Again, this makes no sense to me.
And in re-reading the post, I have to wonder if the references to divorced and “out-of-wedlock” parents aren’t part of the issue here for conservatives. Do they believe single parents have less of a right to call the shots on behalf of their own children than married parents in traditional families do?
Apr 7th, 2008
I can imagine situations where grandparents may have been asked to fill a parental-type role, if the true parents are unfit, addicts, or are in some other kind of similarly neglectful capacity. In that case, I think a court should consider allowing contined access to the grandparent, even if the parents don’t like it. However, in the scenario described by Mr. Oatney, I absolutely disagree. A fit parent should have ultimate authority for their child’s wefare.
If this were true, there would be a lot of abuse victims made to hand their kids over to their own abusers.
My children’s FIL is a convicted pedophile, which makes me lucky- I have a paper record to prove he is a danger to my kids. What if he was *not* convicted- as the vast majority of incest perps are… and petitioned for rights?
Scary.
Interesting issue. From cursory review of the two posts you link to, they appear identical, or nearly so. It sounds more like a response based on “my dang son isn’t pushing for enough visitation and I never get to see my grandchild” sort of basis.
I think the two blog posts are indeed identical - but the second one was showing support for the opinions voiced by the first one. And both guys are social conservatives who blog.
-Katie
I know one thing: I’d hate for my in-laws, as much as I love them, to have parenting rights over my children. They’re my children, not my in-laws.
I do find it odd that conservatives are trying to give the courts more power to control my children. I find it odd that conservatives are trying to take away some of my rights as a parent.
And yes, I do think they’re rights, as opposed to priviledges. Parents have the right to parent their children and have say over who else can have access to them.
I was thinking along the same lines as Cathy. What about the parents who aren’t allowed near their children? You’re going to tell me that all their parents would abide by that? I could see a lot of potential for parents who are only supposed to see their kids with court-appointed supervision using this as a work-around. Grandma and Grandpa gets the kids for the weekend and scary Mommy comes over to spend time with them.
That seems like a nightmare.
I also agree with Katie that this seems to be about some weird anxiety about unmarried parents.
I can see both sides of this. Especially in the case of divorce or out of wedlock. If the grandparents have been involved in the child’s life and the breakup of the parents is awful, and you know those things can get nasty, then is it fair to the grandparents and children who love them to be used as a pawn with no say so just to get back at the other parent. I think the ability to ask should be there, and a parent of course has the right to lay out why they do not want their child to see the grandparents. In the scenario that Aunt B. mentions - I would say a situation where the parent is limited to supervised visits then the grandparents would have to be as well to keep that from happening. If they really just want to spend time with their grandchildren, then they should be able to accept (except - i can’t ever remember which one is correct) that.
There have been many cases in the news lately, which you should know about Katie, where parents simply disappear, or don’t disappear but are not capable of raising children, leaving the grandparents holding the bag.
Without having read this article, I would assume it is about such. If a grandparent is responsible for a child after picking up the responsibility from a deadbeat parent, they should be able to make legal decisions. I would guess it is a simple as that.
What we are asking for is NOT, I repeat NOT for grandparents to have custodial rights…and not even for grandparents to be guaranteed visitation rights. As it stands now, any grandparent can petition the court for visitation, but in the VAST majority of cases, the petition is ignored by the court. All we are asking is that those petitions be heard. Absolutely, parental rights are fist and foremost and should remain so. But when a grandparent is denied visitation simply because the child’s mother can’t stand the father of her child (or vice-versa), and the resentment is toward the father and not the paternal grandparents, should the paternal grandparents still be denied the ability to see the child…even if only occasionally? It’s a hard pill to swallow either way you look at it…but all we are asking is that it BE LOOKED AT.
Nicole-
I am sure that’s an extremely painful and disappointing situation for your family, but I still have to say that in my opinion, the competent custodial parent gets to decide who has a relationship with his/her child. His or her motivations for making that decision (religious, personal, etc) are no one’s business but that parent’s.
I understand that others hold different opinions on this.
-Katie
the original blog entry stated: “Where there is an out-of-wedlock birth concerned, the non-custodial parent (very often, but not always the father) isn’t always responsible enough to press the courts for their parental right to visit their child and try to have a relationship with them. If the non-custodial parent doesn’t press for their rights, the grandparents have no right under present law to petition the courts for any kind of visitation with their grandchildren, and have no real rights unless something terrible should happen to both living parents.”
If their son got someone pregnant, isn’t married to her, and isn’t pushing for his rights, then the grandparents need to step back and look at reparenting their existing child, and working on that relationship first. THEN when you get your son straightened out where he’s a better parent and more ‘responsible’ as they put it, think about your relationship with your grandkids. Don’t just dump your son and focus your love on the grandkids. HE needs your attention first, if he’s that irresponsible.
One of the most prominent cases related to this issue in recent years was the Perry March case, where the Levine family petitioned the court to see their grandchildren. March was, for years, widely suspected of killing his wife. With no evidence to convict him [until recently], he took his kids and moved to Mexico. [He's now in prison and kids with the grandparents in question.]
I would argue, that while heartbreaking, this type of case is the exception rather than the rule. While my children are fortunate to have WONDERFUL grandparents, I can imagine any number of situations where a good parent would want to limit, supervise or cut off grandparents’ visits with a child. Just as a good parent might with anyone who turns out to be a negative influence. Unless the parent is proven in court to be unfit, no one else should have a say. This is crazy to even have to discuss.
I would imagine that this could go either way. I am with the person who saw “any number of situations that contact would need to be limited”. Especially in the case of say, a sex offender. Absolutely sane parents would need to be able to limit this. BUT on the other side of the fence you have situations where unmarried people create a child and then proceed to hate each other forever. Unfortunately, due to the moral climate today, this isn’t at all uncommon. An assumption is made that the custodial parent could never ever be just plain old acting spitefully. Both scenarios are possible. And either way this falls, its possible for people to get screwed either way. To be honest, since the possibility of forcing kids to spend time with say, a child molester, is quite a bit worse than missing out on grandparents because mom is a spiteful b*tch that wants to hurt the babydaddy any way she can…I regretfully would have to fall on the side of being against the grandparents rights thing. Consider this to be yet another reason why its very good to limit your procreation and activities that could lead to procreation to relationships involving lifetime commitment. People are so busy defending their “right” to have sex however and with whoever they want to that they forget that very often, it is the kid that results from that act that pays the price in some fashion or another, either by being aborted, having adoption issues or living with the myriad of fallout from the mother having never had any kind of permanent commitment to the father. Nonmarital sex is claimed to be a “victimless” sin, but is it really?
I get your point and I’m sure that happens, Liz. But neither are children well served by being victims of a court battle at the hands of their grandparents. Sometimes the best you can do is be available, but try to accept when someone doesn’t actually want your help. It’s just not up to the grandparents.
What really horrifies me here is how interventionist and nanny-state this position is. How dare a court decide who my children are and aren’t allowed to see? Are my children healthy? Happy? Then it’s none of yours, the court’s, or any grandparents’ business, unless I choose to include you in my children’s life. Period.
What about the spiteful non-custodial parent using his/her parents to petition the courts and place a burden of legal defense on the custodial parent? I sure as heck would resent being hauled into court by my in-laws.
Icreekmo…I am with you. I think I said the lesser of two evils is the grandparents being cut off. Sad as it is. If the alternative is that a child molester could twist the legal process around to demand time with the grandkids, then that’s the price you pay to keep the kiddos safe. And yes, I can totally see the spiteful thing going both ways. This is, as I said, one of the things that people don’t think about when they are proclaiming their right to copulate with whoever they want, no matter their future intentions with that person.
>Nonmarital sex is claimed to be a…sin
says you.
Someone should ask the children (those who are now grown) what it’s like to be denied a relationship with their grandparents while those grandparents are still living, only to find out as an adult that their grandparents died before they ever got a chance to meet them.
I would imagine it depends on the situation. What is sad is that a lot of very different situations could get poured into the same mold. I am sure there are cases where parents are doing their best to keep kids from dangerous grandparents. I am sure there are also cases where the adult kids are just being petty. Anyone on either side who denies the existence of either a)situations where grandkids need to be protected from grandparents or b)parents using their kids against their own parents is sticking their heads in the sand. it would be nice if these things could be decided on a case by case basis and if the outcome were truly dependent on right and wrong rather than on which side can afford the better lawyer.
Hi. I just happened to look at your site, and I just happen to have a friend for whom this very law is a life saver. Her sister was in a terribly abusive marriage, left the husband (at last), but died of breast cancer before she could finalize a divorce, leaving behind a 4 year old son. The father is a deadbeat with violent tendencies and a possible drug problem and has sworn that their child will never see his mother’s family again. The only way this family can keep an eye on the child is through grandparent visitation, so they sued for, and thankfully won, that right. The grandparents are the main hope this child has of any help if abuse or neglect occurs, as we are all afraid it will.
PS My friend and I are very liberal, if that matters.
Well
thank you. This is why I said every case is different. for every person who doesn’t want the kid around the grandparents, then there are others for whom it is the exact opposite. One can only pray that those in positions to make these legal decisions are of sound mind and don’t have their heads up their butts.
What happened to the other conservative that agreed with Oatney? It would seem that their views on this subject are no longer to be found. Sounds like someone was told to dummy up.
well oatney is oooo right
This is to all grandparents: You should respect the wishes of the parents, because they are now the parents “not you” When you are told not to give your grandchild things the parents don’t want them to have, you shouldn’t! If you have the additude you are the grandparent and you will do what you want, then I think you don’t have the right to see them at all! Or at least be able to keep them without the parents supervising.
anonymous said…
This is the mother i let them see her once a week every tuesday she missed last tuesday because i work and i go to school, i am doing the best i can, they see her more than my own father does, not because i don’t want him a part of her life but because i have a lot of irons in the fire, this week they did not see her because i was very hurt by this blog and i thought they understood that i am trying to do so much while being the best mother i possibly can, also i felt very violated by the frequent unannounced random stops at my house dare i say even harrassed, if i gave each set of grandparents more than one day a week between school and work i would have no alone time with my child and i feel like our bonding time is very important, and Gail get you facts straight he sees her more than alot of people and she is not losing out anywhere she has more people that love than any baby i have ever seen and i mean truely love her there is no pretending here, i think you all are being very unfair to me, i m tired, i’m so very tired, can’t you just give me a break, are you so unreasonable that we can’t miss one week without you flipping out and creating crap like this, and i hope all this proved to you that there aren’t thousands of people out there to support you, also i am very tired of people threatening to take me to court, also i told your family about her when i was three weeks pregnant and as far as you expecting me to trust you how was this blog suppossed to develop any trust, and we have discussed and you were told from the begining that visitation would always be supervised, you have been explained the reasons why, also Nana tommie as she as so decided to name herself against my wishes, has informed several people that she isn’t sure of the childs paternity, and let me point out as other people have as well, i don’t have to let you see her at all and you should be happy with the what visitation you do get it is more than alot of grandparents get, so please if you want to do whats best for the baby quit threatening and harrassing her mother, I realize all this was to make people feel sorry for you and can’t afford the time it takes to deal with some stupid blog
do you ( ALL ) have toes that grow together ?
I’M LAUGHING OUT LOUD.
So are alot of people
well oatney 0000 must right or where are you at on this ? and where is strat talk on this ? have you all ben told to dummy up or what?
I am a single mother of two great kids and I am fighting this battle now. My so called mother potitioned the court for grandparents rights. She won that case and now she has potitioned the court for custody. The Judge due to his byass against single mothers gave temp custody to her. He did not listen to the facts, such as she has a record of child abuse, and drug addiction. I have been raising my kids alone for along time. I don’t abuse or neglect them. I don’t do drugs and I work. I don’t use the system to support my kids but I have been made out to be a bad mother because I am single and don’t own a home. This Judge has taken my daughter and given the grandmother all rights. I have seen my daughter two times in three months and there is nothing I can do about it. My daugter wants to live there because the grandparents don’t say no and buy her everything. The next court date keeps getting moved and I’m running out of money for the attorney bills. The court system is only for the people with money and because I work I can’t get legal aid. I dont know where to turn for help financially and emotionally. I live in Ohio where gradually parents are loosing all there rights and noone will help.
Hi I hope someone can give you a proper answer to your question. It seems that you have had strong alegations made which were untrue and it has all esculated. I just came back from holiday with the sister and and my partners mother. I have had points raised about how I looked after my baby on holiday in a confined environent. I forgot things the heat got to me here and there and her routine was disturbed and she had just started crawling and i turned my back for one second and she was off the bed. I breastfed her for six months and she is my first child I own a house and am a full time mother and they are trying to say I’m unfit because of a bad experience on holdiay turning my partner against me. She is never on a bed at my house she has a big lounge to crawl in. I just found out i’m pregnant again so it does explain my mistakes I made on holiday and I told my partners family on holiday that i was pregnant and they still treated me badly. I know what they are saying is just talk and they would not actually report me butThey are even threatning to report me. I just don’t understand what they think they are doing. Can I stop my partner taking my daughter over to see them?
I believe that every case is different. But when there are loving grandparents denied by a mentally ill parent the right to love their grandchildren it is so sad for those children to be jailed from that love. How sick is it that a mother’s jealouy deny’s that the child might love a grandparent more than she that she deny’s that right. How sad for the children to not expierence that genuine love and how unhealthy is it in the long run- if the mother is like that what else will she deny them for a well balanced mentally healthy future for those children. If the grandparent can get letters of who they are and how loving they are they should be able to petition the court for that right to love! The son has to live with the unhealthy wife and if he makes waves she threatens to move a way with them- it is sick knowing the grandparents and their pure hearts like I do it is crime- a theif of the heart on time that will never be regained.
What a lot of this stuff seems to boil down to is adults problems with each other-THE CHILDREN ALWAYS PAY THE PRICE!I’m not talking about abusive,molesting,addicts-parents or grandparents.My husband and I were fine for in-laws when it came to getting money, cars,etc.for our daughter-in-law.But once she divorced our son(justifiably)-she ripped our granddaughter away from us. I thought we could still go on and have some sort of relationship for the good of everyone-we still treated our ex-DIL with love-but she turned out to be VERY vindictive and cruel.She is taking all her anger towards our son out on us- he’s a deadbeat dad -that has made us heartsick also.They are both so selfish and they don’t see / care how this hurts their daughter-they are cutting her off from a lot of her family on this side that love her. We tried to get visitation from the courts but all she did was make up a bunch of lies.ALL we want to do is see our beloved granddaughter.Sometimes it IS the parents /grandparents being vindictive! P.S.- All this stuff about in/out of wedlock in previous posts is just people using it as an excuse to be hateful!
I also believe the “natural parents or adoptive parents” should have the right to determine who they want their children to see. Though I do understand how some parents can be very spiteful and use their children as pawns to use as leverage and punishing tools used against the grandparents or any other relative who may love their children. But what would you say when the parents do not have custody and it is the legal custodians who will not allow visitations to the maternal or paternal grandparents? To make it even more complicated. Let’s say there are three siblings. Two are in the custody of the maternal grandparents and one is with another relative who is trying to adopt just the one sibling that is in their care. Let’s say these relatives have stopped all visitations between the grandparents and the two other siblings because the maternal grandparents did not agree to the adopttion and have tried to stop it. The maternal grandparents cannot afford an attorney because the maternal grandmother no longer works so she can stay home to care for the two other siblings. This is a real case and it is tragedy for everyone.
katie allison granju said,
April 8th, 2008 at 7:01 am
Nicole-
I am sure that’s an extremely painful and disappointing situation for your family, but I still have to say that in my opinion, the competent custodial parent gets to decide who has a relationship with his/her child. His or her motivations for making that decision (religious, personal, etc) are no one’s business but that parent’s.
I understand that others hold different opinions on this.
-Katie
****************************************************************************
How much do you think we, as grandparents can take? My daughter had one baby with one guy who is into drugs. They would fight all the time upsetting the baby!! Is this healthy? WEll, she married another guy. Was married for 3 months and tossed him out, then found out she was pregnant. Now keep in mind my daughter is 27 years old!!!!!. As it turned out she never let her hubby be involved in the pregnancy NEVER even told him when the baby was born. My second grand daughter has my last name. Oh, by the way when all this is going on the drug lord was back in the picture. She tossed out her husband of 3 months to go back with the druggie. After things didn’t work out for the third time with the druggie guess who comes back home?…My husband and I took care of our grand daughters for months! AND, I have to mention ALL the money we dished out to their household!… THOUSANDS!!!!!!!! All to try to get the druggie help when he was taking the rent money and buying drugs!. My grand daughter would come in my bedroom and say “Nonnie I hungery” when she came out of her mothers room!!!… My daughter is lazy and NOT a good parent! Because of a tiff we had her druggie boyfriend called the police and I WENT TO JAIL!! I worry all the time who is watching MY GRANDBABIES when these two scumbags are “suppose” to be working!. YES TENNESSEE NEEDS STRONGER GRANDPARENT RIGHTS FOR THE SAKE OF OUR GRANDBABIES!!
One more tid bit… Shes still living with the druggie and still married to the other guy. I wonder how this teaching will be good for the babies.
Fit v unfit
If a parent is found to be unfit then yes family should be allowed to file court proceeding to visit the child.
However, these laws allow FIT parents to be sued. Do you know how much legal fees are to fight for children?
I am a single FIT PARENT. I have a college education and have two children. For years I endured the abuse from my parents, threats, accusations, and public humiliation. While on a visit with my biological parents, my daughter was taken to the emergency room. This along with many other reasons, the domestic abuse center assisted me with a formal written demand to have no contact with my biological parents and included in the demand was for my biological parents to have no contact with my children.
This lead to my biological parents, to file for visitation of my children, in the court papers they accused me of being an unfit parent and mentally challenged.
The day of the hearing for visitation, I was served with new court papers in front of the hearing officer that accused me of abuse, neglect, inadequate housing, and having a bipolar disorder. The papers also stated that my daughter had mental issues that we left untreated.
My home is a three bedroom townhome. Neither my daughter nor I have ever been diagnosed with any mental issues. I have never been convicted or charged with a crime. I have no history of drug or alcohol abuse. I have provided for my children since the day they were born. There is no abuse or neglect and never any reports of neglect or abused filed. This was slander on legal documents presenting in court.
Based on allegations and no factual evidence my children were taken away from my care and place with my biological parents. The judge state which I have the court transcripts, “PROVE TO ME THAT YOU ARE A FIT PARENT AND DESERVE YOUR CHILDREN.” Then I was told “FIT PARENTS DON’T ALWAYS GET CUSTODY OF THEIR CHILDREN.”
I am entitled to visitation with my children every 4 weeks.
I lost my children because I no longer wanted to be abused by my biological parents. I would have thought that a 38 year old woman with a great job, excellent benefits, home owner, voter, of sound mind would be allowed to say that she no longer wishes to be insulted, humiliated, and degraded by her own parents. The domestic abuse center that I was working with for 2 years prior to the letter being written in the first place thought that I had the right to say NO.
According to the LAW on grandparents rights. I do not have the right to refuse to be abused. The law does not require evidence of accusations just that the grandparents have genuine care and concern for the children.
Because I no longer could take the abuse inflicted to my family, I have paid the ultimate price, the life of my children.
Grandparents Rights Law do not serve the children nor the family. These laws sweep innocent children up and place them in the center of an adult conflict. FIT parents are being forced into legal battles for the right to raise their own children. To answer the question above, I know parents who have spent over ¼ million dollars and have gone up to the state supreme court. I have spent over $50,000 dollars before the domestic abuse center attorney took the case.
As it was stated by the U.S. Supreme court as long as there is a fit parent than the court should not be involved in a conflict between grandparents and fit parents.
Just think if you allow any FIT parents decision to be question then you have questioned your own parenting skills!
You know, there seem to be no grandparents on this site. They have a side, too. My grandchildren are the center of my world. I live many states away form them, spend more money than I should on airfare to visit them, support them in everything and stay out of their parents’ way and out of their business. We aren’t buttinskis or tell them how to parent or what to think about anything. We help the parents and the kids with anything we can, even from a distance.
The parents are pretty immature and unappreciative, but we do it for the babies, put on a brave face, bite our tongues and do anything we can to ensure harmony in the family. Our grandchildren love us. We see them about 6 times a year for a total of about 10 weeks. We email them with photos and stories, talk to them regularly on the phone, send them surprise packages in the mail and make a great effort to stay involved with them. We’re a good distance away and not well off enough to travel more frequently, even if I had the vacation time.
One parent suffers from depression and is very moody and unpredictable. She’s taken away our phone calls and visits already and refuses to even give a reason, within days of a visit where she gave no signs there was any problem. One day, she could take our babies away and to think we would have no recourse after being close and involved with them for years is unthinkable. P
Parents have rights, of course, but I think they should have to prove a detriment to their children before they willy nilly tear the lives of their children and their grandparents apart. There should be a reason is all I’m saying because parents can make bad choices in thier own interests instead of the childrens’ interest. It can happen and innocent people who would like to have a relationship - the kids and their grandparents - could be over ruled to everyone’s detriment. That’s just the other side of the story that’s not being discussed here.
I agree with the first post. Many grandparents are great and genuinely supportive and try to stay neutral. Many do help out in a lot of ways. Having a relationship with their grandkids is less the point than is grandparents being able to sue FIT parents for unsupervised visits. We are not talking about immature, incompetent or druggie parents. We are talking mainly about fit, single parents, usually the custodial parent.
Most state “grandparents visitation” law turn on only one point - the marital status of the parent. In most states, single parent have fewer rights than married parents, by virtue only of their marital status. That’s called discrimination.
I was sued, not because I “cut off” the petitioner. In fact I allowed visits. They were fine, cordial visits. The real problem was the petioner HATED me and desired to “cut ” me out of the picture.
The most typical scenario is just that. The petioner hates the custodial parent and desires to separate the child from the parent. Using the courts to achieve this is basically legalized kidnapping. Once gotten, the petioner can wave the court order in the face of the parent and dare them to defy it, ready to run to the court and file the contempt charges. The petioner angles for a way to get the parent thrown into jail for contempt. And it has happened. The only real winners are the lawyers, who make money win or loose. It’s a lawyer’s law, really.
If the grandparents want to have a relationship with their grandchildren, they need to do what other grandparents do, br genuinely supportive, don’t take sides, don’t bad-mouth the parents to the children. And remember, they are not your children, you can’t use them as “do-overs”. If your world is your grandchildren, then you need to get a hobby.
As long as a fit single parent is providing for the well-being of their children, then noone should be able to sue for unsupervised visitation, just because they don’t like the parent.
Joe, sounds like you do the right thing, for the grandkids and the family. But remember, not all grandparents are created equal, many have their own mental issues. The troubles of one parent should not be allowed to diminsh the rights of the millions of good, fit single parents, but that is what these laws do.
I believe that grandparents regardless of whether the parents are married or not should have legal rights to see their grandchildren.Without them their grandchildren wouldnt exist.Im going through this right now.My grandson is 2 months old and is left with strnagers all the time ,but I have to beg to see him if his parents are arguing.These are children, not tug of war games to be played with,and family is the most important thing in life.
Michelle,Im so sorry this happened to you.I know a man whose wife ran off with their kids,had several men in and out.The kids wre abused in everyway and nothing has been done by the courts,children services,the police even call DCH,and nothing.Now the mother has abandoned them and her mother is going to court on the fathers behalf.These children have fallen through the cracks,and who paid for their food,clothes,and shelter all this time?Their whole family except the mother.She used the child support to support her habits ,and we the Whole family who have no legal rights paid for everything they have needed.
I raised my granddaughter for 3/4 of her life! I babysat everyday. She lived with me. I have a strong bond with her and she was taken away from me because her mother is a witch who happens to be my daughter! My other granddaughter doesn’t know me. she was taken from me and my husband as well. Its been 9 months since I’ve seen them. My daughter and I had an argument and now Im being punished . I CAN’T SEE THEM. I wonder how many times that little girl cries to see her Nonnie, and how my daughter tells her “Nonnies nasty”. I also wonder what this is doing to her. I was the most stabe thing in her life!! There has got to be something we as grandparents can do to make sure our grandbabies feel secure, loved and safe. A huge part of my life is gone . All I want is to see them.
Its a sad day when we have to have these kinds of discussions.What about children who harbor ill feelings with their parents and use the grandchildren to punish their parents? Ive seen alot of that.Unless the grandparents were abusive or addicts than it makes no sense.Children have a right to know their heritage,and they can learn so many good things from older adults.My grandmother was wonderful but because she was strong willed and honest,my dad hated her and refused when I got older to let me spend time with her.She was a wonderful,smart,loving woman.Shes gone now and I cant get that time back.He let his jealousy and hatred ruin my relationship with her.
Not all grandparent visitation situations are the same and so there needs to be another veiw point to this subject. I am the grandmother of three little girls, all who have been removed from the parents for neglect because of drug and alcohol abuse. I am currently raising the two oldest and the youngest was placed in the custody of a so called family member who offered to help me at the time.
Unfortunately the help this family membered offered was just a ruse in order to gain my trust so that I would agree to have my youngest granddaughter placed in their home. At the time I just could not handle all three sisters ages 7, 2 and 8 months and this family member offered to care for the youngest child until at which time my daughter could get her life straightened out and regain custody of her children. The true intentions were to adopt my youngest granddaughter as soon as the law would allow. After eight months of having custody of my granddaughter the family member informed me of their intention to adopt and asked for my help to terminate the parental rights of my daughter so they could begin the adoption procedure. I objected to this adoption and refused to help in any way. I informed the family member at that time that I was going to seek custody of my youngest grandchild so I could reunite her with her older sister and raise them together. Since I no loinger worked outside the hom and I was able to care for all the girls and devote my days to raising them. I explained to this family member that by them trying to adopt my youngest granddaugther that this would cut the legal ties with her older sisters and break the sisterly bond that they had. The family member had no concern for how the adoption would affect all the sisters and would not even consider letting my granddaughter come back to our home to be raised with her sisters. My refusal to help them and the fact that I was going to fight to get my youngest granddaughter back angered the family member and so they have refused us contact with my granddaugher. This also includes no contact between the sisters. This has gone on since May of 2007. The girls had been allowed weekly visits with each other until March of 2008.
I have filed a petition for grandparent visitations for not only myself but on behalf of my two oldest grandchildren so they can see their younger sister without interuption. I am not fighting parents but people who just have custody so there is another take on the subject matter.
Siblings should never be seperated this way.Shame on them.If they wanted this chid than they should have offered to take all of them together, at leastthat way they could be together,and you could still be a part of all their lives.A decent judge will see to it that the needs of these children are what comes first.Youre family will be in my prayers.
I am a grandmother also and I have custody of my 13 year old grandson. He will be 14 in June. I was given custody of my grandson when he was six months old. My daughter, his mother and her first born signed custody of him to her dad and I with the understanding she would be grown and have her life together at the age of 19, she was 16 at the time custody was given by the courts. His bio-father told thid child when he suddenly appears when this child is 10 years old that he ran because he didn’t want to face any charges for getting a 15 year old pregnant. Nice thing to tell your child. My grandson was discharged from the NICU at two and a half months old to come home and die with his family. I cannot tell tou the countless doctor visits I took this child to, the emergenacy room visits, the hospital stays the surgeries and where was the DNA match, who knows, he did nothing for this child, my husband and I have fed and clothed him, nourished him and loved him unconditionally all of his life, granted we did not ask to recieve our first grandson this way but we did, and we accepted him when his own parents would not. My grandson knows the whole story, nothing is kept from him, when this DNA connection came into his life three years ago and started this mess and a mess it is, his grades went into the toilet, he started to fear to even go outside, refused to go to friends houses, would not sleep at my other daughters house with his cousins that he is very close to, all because he fears that this man will take him away from what he says is his real family. No one in this family has said any negative things about this man, we have told our grandson to go try to have a good time, you just might like it. Unfortunatley he can’t stand it. For the last year he has been throwing up when it’s time to be around the DNA connection the specialist says he is having aniexty attacks and it causing him to throw up. My grandson has started a journal that he is emailing to anyone and everyone that will read it and is asking them to pass it on. Today he emailed the President of the United States asking him if he would read this journal. I read the journal, he emailed it to me, he is keeping in his laptop. My husband and I gave my grandson all the things that children his age should have from their parents, he deserves that, he deserves to be able to feel like he belongs someplce and has a stable and loving home. My grandson has even filed a report with the sheriff’s dept that he has seen the DNA connection smoking weed with his wife, found their joints and everytime he gets in thier trucks it smells of nothing but weed. We had to be in court today, the judge said that I, me the one that cared for the child he left behind is interfering with his right to be a father. She read the journal that my grandson printed for her, she told him he had to take a hair folicle drug test and had to do it today. If he passes it he will get custody of my grandson, the child that has been saying for three years he wants no part of this man. He is asking now for laws to be changed to protect grandkids and grandparents in this situation, he knows we are not the only ones. My grandson said it would probably be a lot different if he had been a part of his life, but he wasn’t and never missed something he never had and that wasn’t his choice it was the DNA connections choice. As far as the bio-father smoking the weed, I believe my grandson, the B/F got in my truck one day he reaked of the smell so bad that I gagged in front of him and told him he stunk. In some cases grandparents do have the right to raise thier grandchildren, and this is one of the cases, he shouldn’t be yanked away from the family he calls “his” to be put with someone because his DNA matches. I do believe that parents have the right to choose who comes in contact with their children I felt the very same about mine. But they walked away from this child when he needed them the most. Now he doesn’t want him. He sees his mother and quite often, he treats her like a sister and has a younger brother and sister and they love each other dearly. Just as he feels about his B/F he feels about his mom. I truly believe in this case, that this child at this age does have a say in who he feels comfortable with and that should say a hell of a lot to a judge. If I had to do this all over again I would for the same reason I did it the first time, so that MY grandson doesn’t get lost in the system that sucks.
I am sorry, i forgot to say that I live in Louisiana.
Look at a different scenaro. My husband and I took custody of our 2 grandchildren almost two years ago. This was due to parents who are addicts and neglect. If and when they ever earn the right to raise their children I feel they will keep them from us. If anyone has ever dealt with an addict, you know what we have been thru. There is so much anger between us now. I will have spent alot of time raising these kids to only have them removed from my life completely? I don’t need a relationship with my daughter, but I do feel I will have earned the right to continue a relationship with my grandchildren.
I don’t know if this will help you but check the laws in the state you are in, the first lawyer I had it seemed like in only wanted my money because I feel the minute he learned that this man was not a part of my grandsons life should have said lets file to have the rights terminated due to his lack of a relationship with the child. But he didn’t I found that out on my own on the internet. I asked him about it and he said we should have done that at the beginnng not now. Well how come you didn’t your the lawyer. He had no reply for me. So look on the internet I typed into google anything I could think of about grandparents and grandkids, custody and that how I found it. My email is kymberlieamh@gmail com if you would like to know some of the ways I typed it in. But file whatever papers you need to file now, if they haven”t had a relationship for a certain period of time and are still using drugs show it in court with a lawyer. But do it now to protect.
Now for the ones who will think that I say terminate a parents rights, yes if they cannot and will not clean up their lives. But for the parents that do clean up and fly right then by all means get your children back, and by all means don’t show us you can do it show your kids the ones that need it the most. We will see it through our grandchildren. Grandparents need to start making more noise about these laws, my grandson is on medication from his doctor to calm his stomach down he has been throwing up since yesterday, are the courts that blind to see what this is doing to him? Not all parents that mess up stay messed up and when they clean up the parents really need to be thankful for the fact that their parents took the children cause if grandparents don’t and their kids are put into the system they play worse hell getting them back and some don’t. I hope things go as they should I feel the same about my daughter, she can either be a part of her sons life or not, she’s not hurting me, in the end it will hurt her, but in the meantime as long as my son wants nothing to do with the DNA connection as he calls him, I will keep fighting for him.
Kym
What kind of judge after hearing this would even consider giving this child back to his biological father?Its apparent after all this time where his priorities are.If the child after turning of age decides to have a relationship with him than that is that,but this young mans best interests now are whats most important.I hate to say this this way,but if any of my children did this I guess Id be in jail,because children dont have a choice of who their parents are,and he would not get his hands on him.
I so agree with you. My grandson has spent the last day and a half throwing up when I finally gave him the meds I take it’s was 4mg more than his, he stopped throwing up in the afternoon but his stomach hurt still but he said not as bad. My grandson and I are trying to find out if the Louisian Cival Code 191 and the Father’s Putative Registry is the same the Regisrty I think should help him since it’s a law on the books and the courts recgonize it I have read it in quite a few cases in Louisiana dealing with the same thing. He is trying to het the new channels to pick this up, I am not giving up as long as my grandson tells me he wants this man out of his life now I fight for him, when I see him crying and throwing up and trying to say it I FIGHT HARDER after all, who else does he have???? Keep us in your prayers, please.
I would like to commet on grandparent rights. My grandson is 4 years old and has been investigated by children’s services 4 times since he was 2 years old. Doctors ,family friends and others have sent in info. to help children’s services see he is not safe with his divorced parents but they keep sending him back to them. He has been in my life since he came into the world and since December of 08 neither parent won’t let me see him.His step grandparents can see him and his mother’s parents can but not me. He has told me he is being sexually bothered by someone in his step mom’s family and he was beat and burnt by someone know by his mother so he is getting hurt from both sides the fathers and mothers in the custody arrangement. He is big enough to tell his granny what is happening to him and now I cannot see him or talk to him at all. I found out from another family member he is crying to see me and his parents don’t care at all.
My heart is breaking for him and I miss him so much my world is not the same anymore.No one can tell me a good, kind, loving grandparent should not have rights.Especially when there is abuse in the home.
If you live in Tennessee you can file a “Petition For Grandparent Visitation” in the Juvenile Court in order to get a hearing for court ordered visitations with your grandchild. Based upon your statement that your grandchild’s parents are divorced you have legal standing to have a hearing on your petition by Tennessee Code 36-6-306 (a)(2). A requirement in this code is the you must have had a significant relationship with your grandchild for at least 1 year or more before your grandchild’s parents stopped the visits.
You can go to the website: http://www.michie.com/tennessee/ for more detail on the Tennessee Codes to know all the requirements. You can do something. If at all possible you should hire an attorney but if you can’t afford one then it is possible for you to write the Petition for Grandparent Visitation and file it yourself. This will take alot of your time and you will have to study examples of other petitions either on the internet or if you can go to a law library you can find other grandparent visitation cases to use an example when preparing yours.
I am a grandmother also and like you I have been banned from seeing my grandchild. For financial reasons I could not afford an attorney so after hours and hours of internet research and going other legal documents I prepared my own petition and filed it myself. I am consider “Pro se” which means I am representing myself. The court date for my hearing is in few months.
I hope this information was helpful to you and gives you some hope that you can do something.
You may also want to call the law school at the college near you, I know here in Louisiana they allow law students to represent some people in court, they are all overseen by lawyers, it gives the law students hands on practice, and may be able to help more than you know. It’s worth a try. Maybe they can help you file your papers at least.
Kym
As for me, I did just that and called the UT Law school after sending an email with no reply. They do not assist with family law matters such as grandparent visitation. The same with the Legal Aid Society. Both only represent cases such as landlord/tenant problems, discrimination and other cases along the line of civil rights.
Beyond just digging your heals in and going pro se the only other route would be to knock on every attorney law office and beg for some pro bono service. Good luck with that since I myself have placed several dozens of phone calls along with writing numerous letters and emails with no results.
At the present time I am waiting to hear back from two attorneys that I contacted via the internet websites. Problem is that I made a point of mentioning the tabu words “pro bono” so I am not expecting to hear back.
I know this sounds very pesimistic (question about spelling) but that is just my experience. After being let down so many times and feeling so much rejection I just decided that I would not lay down and just accept the situation. There is a saying, “it isn’t over until the fat lady sings” well my saying is, “it isn’t over until the judge rules!” and I plan on keeping a positive attitude as a matter of choice.
Did you try the bar association in your state. They may know of an attorney that will do that type of work. They are hard to find, but you know there are some out there. Some place there is an attorney that believes grandparents have rights.
And what I would do is may not be what you would do. I would call and call and call child protection until someone does something. Go straight to the judge, my grandson isn’t with me now, the worst the judge can do is say or do nothing. Someone will hear, you just have to do more leg work than the rest.
I know it’s a struggle, but if we don’t do anything and everything we can for our grandbabies, no one else will.
Good luck’
Kym
I decided to read a little of what others thought, of Grandparents raising Granchildren, in the state of Fl, 30 percent of children are being raised by grandparents. I raised my 3 children,and to my suprise I am now filing for temp. custody of a beautiful 30 month old grandson. It amazes me, how kids ask there parents to baby sit for free watch the kids thru, hard times,buy diapers cloths ect. I never had that luxury,or expected, that from my parents,even at times life was tough,I did without, and the kids got what as needed and more.And yes I believe parents should be in the childs life….BUT if you leave the child in the situation where he learns to love,us during his maternal bonding period you will hurt him,once again buy yanking him or her around just because you decided your ok now to be a parent. then you become appauled that the grandparent ,thinks they have a say.Yes think since the grandparents who are willing and unselfish enough to do what we did 25 yrs ago,step up, for going on 3 yrs do believe we have say,when the parent is still very imature and selfish.Maybe the parent should prove hiself to us and the child,good luck grandmas and grandpas and I pray that maybe before we croak.We see there will be grownups around for the child.
My ex-daughter in law is letting me see Mikey now a little while at a time.It was so wonderful to see him after almost 4 and a half months. I am keeping my options open if they bar me from him again. There are 4 others I would like to see but my son has control over them alone and they may never be in my life like they should be and that makes me sad but I am seeing my 4 year old grandson again and I can be joyful about that.
I am involved in an appeal case with my two children. My ex husband and I have been divorced for five years. We have two children together. My parents are very controling and made things very hard in my first marriage. We divorced and both have remarried. He also has a new child with his second wife. We all get along with each other. My parents do not believe in divorce. They have made things HELL for all of us. They tell our children that neither of the parents or step-parents love them. They tell them that the new baby will take their place. If me or my ex did not do what they wanted they would make threats about getting an attorney and taking the kids. We finally agreed that the kids did not need to spend time with people who were trying to brain wash them and break up two marriages just because they do not believe in divorce. We stopped visitation with them in January of this year. They took us to court to get visitation in April. The judge gave them visitation. I have two weekends a month and so does their dad. He is a over the road truck driver and is not home through the week. Even though the judge new this he gave my parents both of his weekends. He did not find us not fit parents, no abuse, no drugs nothing. we are appealing his decision. It is very costly around ten thousand dollars. We are so upset with this. Who protects parents from controling grandparents. If they truley loved their grandkids they would not be making trouble. they would be glad that all the adults got along and are taking great care of their grandkids. Who protects the parents rights to raise our children as we see fit. They had their chance it is our time now. How can a judge that does not know the people make a change that effects every one but him for the rest of their lives. HELP totally let down by our legal system!!!
Stephanie, I am really sorry to hear about your situation. It just proves my point that there are other situations involving Grandparent Visitations. As a grandparent I know the love and joy that comes from spending time with your grandchildren but I also am a mother of grown children and fortunately have a good relationship with my children. It is hard for me to imagine that a grandparent would cause their own child so much pain and heartache because they cannot let go because that is what it is. Sometimes parents whose children have grown up and have children themselves cannot turn off the control button that is the need to that involved with their children’s lives that they interfer with their children’s own family.
As a grandparent raising two of their grandchildren it is not an easy thing to do and it is not of my choice. Drugs and alcohol were involved and for the children’s safety I had to get involved. I would have much rather to have been Nana who picked the kids up everyonce in a while or weekend visits and then return the kids to my child. It is what it is and I am doing the best I can. I hope your parents realize they are fortunate to have children who are good parents and they will someday take pride in the fact that they did have a hand in the fact that you all do so well after divorce and remarry. That right there says something good about your mom and dad. I wish you the best and I pray God will enlighten your mom and dad about their behavior regarding fostering harmony in the family.