15 Comments to 'Franklin Graham in Knox County Schools'
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Franklin Graham in Knox County Schools
Posted By katie allison granju
I have to agree with Cathy on this one. She pretty much nails why it’s inappropriate for religious events to be given free ad time and a captive audience of students within the Knox County school system.
Two of my children came home from school this week waving color flyers for a Baptist celebrity’s revival. I glanced at the papers and put them aside. The event has been heavily advertised on television, on billboards and at churches. I don’t care what kind of flyers are distributed through the schools. Okay, I would not like to see anything that it is illegal for students to do advertised to students. Otherwise, I am fine with the karate classes, sports teams, vacation bible school and big church event flyers that are sent home each week. When my children told me that they were taken out of classes to watch a skateboarder and a stunt biker while hearing about the great event they should attend to win prizes, I was NOT amused. I sat on it for a day as my husband always requests when I get myself worked up about something and I am still unhappy.
I don’t care what religious or secular events occur in the school building before or after school hours. There should be ZERO religious or advertising events during school hours. No matter what their personal beliefs are, I truly believe that school administrators are capable of understanding when they are crossing the line. They CHOSE to cross the line this time. This was marketing for a specific religious event and nothing more. Schools are locked and monitored buildings. Parents can’t just show up and hang out in the classroom. Anything or anyone that is a distraction is not allowed in the building. Teachers complain endlessly about the lack of time they have to teach because of standardized testing. If we have so much free time that we can subject our children to infomercials, why don’t we spend that time on something that pertains to education? The children need a well deserved break from academics? The school has its’ own music, art and athletic programs. Showcase those.
This program will be defended on the grounds that anyone who is opposed to it is an atheist or criminal. No. I am opposed on the grounds of separation of church and state. I am opposed because it is a poor use of the precious school hours. I am opposed because this is marketing and not education.
This isn’t the first time this has happened in Knox County schools lately. Not long ago, students at Powell High School were removed from class to hear about a big Christian event taking place at Grace Baptist Church. After I heard about this incident, I called Knox County Schools spokesman Russ Oaks to inquire about the Grace Baptist event folks being given access to students in this way during school hours, and he told me it was a “character building event.” And that’s pretty much exactly what he told Knoxville News Sentinel reporter Michael Silence today when M.S. asked him about the Graham Festival promoters being allowed into the schools during instructional hours.
I’m a parent of four children, two of whom attend a private, Christian school here in town, and one of whom attends a Knox County public school (#4 is too little to ship off each day just yet). I would expect Graham’s PR folks to show up at the parochial school my children attend, but would be very concerned if they showed up at my child’s public school. I am certain that Graham and his festival do offer many “character building” messages, but that’s not the point. There appears to be a developing pattern of allowing one religious group (conservative Christians) access to Knox County public school children on taxpayers’ time and property in the guise of teaching values. I suspect that if the local Unitarians or Hindus asked for a similar opportunity to entertain and inform children at Powell High School during school hours, they would be immediately dismissed by the school powers that be.
Apr 25th, 2008
Frankly this just burns my bacon. Regardless of whatever reasons Russ McBee gives for the access being granted, it was completely improper. I do not ever remember these types of incursions in my public school education in Florida, despite our community being very conservative. Exposure to religion should be left to the discretion of parents. Our country has very clear rules on this, why do evangelicals insist on trying to push those walls down? Either everybody gets religious representation in the public school or nobody does. And the law says nobody. I see there is a need for a visit to the School Board on this one.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
Hmmm, Yeah. Y’all do know what that statement is right?
I just don’t see anything in there about Franklin Graham letting public school students know about his event. On the contrary, the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America espouses open dialog, which I suppose is what we are doing now.
And what are the ends to open dialog? You might actually have to talk to your kids about your values. Hmmm, go figure.
Imagine the senearo: your kid comes home and says “Mommy, I got this flyer today about the Franklin Graham thingy going on this weekend.”
Lo and behold, you have an opportunity have dialog with your kids about your beliefs.
Call me crazy, but where does it end? Our laws are based on someone’s set of moral values, and those values are based on religious values. Thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal, thou shall not covet, etc… you get the idea.
So where does it end? Is the government espousing religious values, or establishing a religion because we have laws that say murder is wrong? That stealing is wrong? Should we stop teaching THOSE religious values in our public schools?
Prayer was a normal part of school life until the ’30s or so,a nd not actually banned in school until the ’70s. Can you please help me out by illustrating the great horrible theoconocracy that held sway in America until that point? Can you please show me how crime rates, juvenile pregnancy, and antipatriotism decreased as a result of it being banned?
if not, I think you owe me- and Frank Graham, who I have very little use for otherwise- an apology.
Out of curiosity, were the students forced to watch An Inconvenient Truth?
Not a lot of difference.
Look, prayer isn’t outlawed.
What’s outlawed is your guy getting up and praying at assemblies and my kids having to say amen.
Your kids can pray to themselves whenever they want.
Are we clear on this?
I’m so tired of telling people this.
So then, I guess it’s also OK for my kid to stand up in the assembly and inform the Right Reverend Elmer Gantry that he is a horse’s posterior, if of course, that is his belief. He can also inform all assembled that they are participating in a religious fairy tale. We don’t allow full freedom of speech in such circumstances, because the students aren’t allowed to just walk out to express their contempt for the proceedings. The freedom to assemble normally includes the freedom not to assemble, but not in a public school.
People, I understand why some of you might feel offended. But where in the Constitution is there a freedom from offense? Many things offend me about America’s indoctrination seminars, er, public school classrooms. But I don’t go around squelching every instance of offense; I used it as an opportunity to express my differing views. Freedom of expression, not freedom from expression, is the foundation of our nation, a nation created within the “marketplace of ideas.” Keyishian v. Board of Regents, 385 U.S. 589 (1967).
And the “separation of church and state” is a tired metaphor totally outside the Constitution and was penned by Jefferson, a man who was our ambassador to France–and was in France–when our Constitution and Bill of Rights were written.
Amen!
States and communities should have some degree of self governance. Such is not the case now… The Federal Government has oversteped its bounds with the idea of “seperation of church and state”.
cl, I don’t think I follow you. What does self governance and church have to do with one another? When you think of having church and state not separated, are you considering other beliefs beyond simply Christian? When we mix church and state will Muslim teachings get equal floor time as Christian? Will Wiccans be able to influence policy to reduce sprawl, stop the construction of mega-churches, and protect the Earth? Will the state mandate certain times of the day to halt legislative sessions so that we can face east and pray. Will teas and coffees be banished from government buildings to appease our Mormon friends?
What exactly does it mean to combine church and state? Separating them seems fairly simple.
Exactly my thoughts Doug. But the people writing and yelling the loudest about their religious freedoms being impeded by separation of church and state are also the ones who do not want any other representations of any different God or dogma being given to their children. They do not understand that their religion is not the only one, or they don’t care. Either way, their intolerance is the reason that separation of church and state is so important. Critical in fact. They are the reason we have to fight to ensure that our world never goes back to the “good old days”.
Doug wrote: “When we mix church and state will Muslim teachings get equal floor time as Christian? . . . Will the state mandate certain times of the day to halt legislative sessions so that we can face east and pray[?]”
I understand your concern, but it is not predicated on a correct understanding of America’s foundation or its Christian heritage. No, Missybw, we need not return to the “good old[e] days,” but neither must we pretend that we are a nation without a religious identity. We are a Christian nation. According to the recent Pew Survey, 78.4% of Americans self-identify as Christians; even with a potentially broad definition of “Christian,” this statistic is remarkable. Yes, America enjoys a diversity of religion. And in fact, a Biblically accurate expression of Christianity would not involve foisting the Christian faith upon the unwilling. Why? Because Christianity is all about a VOLUNTARY choice to believe in Jesus Christ and to follow the teachings of the Bible; as such, it is totally compatible with the functioning of a robust democracy. The same cannot be said of Islam, where converts to other faiths face death due to apostasy. And unlike in Christianity, Islam does not allow its adherents to render to Caesar what is Caesar’s.
I think you are a little misinformed. The 1797 Treaty of Tripoli (officialy “Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary” approved by The Senate on June 7 and officially ratified by the Senate with John Adams signature on 10 June) which in Article 11
Additionally, most of the founding fathers were not Christians. (that link is cited with verifiable references)
Doug, I don’t mean to engage in a tit-for-tat with you, but the Treaty of Tripoli red herring is just that–a red herring. How ’bout this quote from Adams’ call for a National Day of Fasting on March 6, 1799? “No truth is more clearly taught in the Volume of Inspiration, nor any more fully demonstrated by the experience of all ages, than that a deep sense and a due acknowledgment of the growing providence of a Supreme Being and of the accountableness of men to Him as the searcher of hearts and righteous distributor of rewards and punishments . . . I have thought proper to recommend that the twenty-fifth day of April next, be observed throughout the United States as a day of solemn humiliation, fasting, and prayer . . . that the citizens call to mind our numerous offenses against the Most High God, confess them before Him with sincerest penitence . . .”
Or, check this out from the Office of the Chaplain at the House of Rep. and its first prayer in 1774: http://chaplain.house.gov/index.html
(”O Lord our Heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech Thee, on these our American States, who have fled to Thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent only on Thee. . .”)
How do we reconcile the Treaty of Tripoli, then? Context is key. Tripoli was a deeply religious (Muslim) government and America was assuring Tripoli that we would not depose that government and impose Christianity by force. The Barbary pirates regularly raided “Christian nations” and we had to assure the Dey of Tripoli that we could enter into amicable relationships with a nation whose religion differed from our own.
Doug, also consider Ben Franklin, a supposed “deist” of his day and product of the Enlightenment. During the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, the delegates were at an impasse only weeks into deliberations. On June 28, 1787, Benjamin Franklin, by then an elder statesman, addressed the assembly with a call to prayer, stating in pertinent part: “I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that “except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel. . . I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service.”
Assuming arguendo that Franklin was, indeed, a deist, how much MORE Christian would the more religiously devout founders have sounded?
Doug, this discussion I’ve had with someone on my blog and if you will allow me to quote my respone to a question:
I think the point i was trying to make earlier was that, in my humble estimation the founding fathers intended for government to stay away from exercising control over religous persuits. Seperation of church and state is an idea in my veiw of the first amendment is not supported.
While everyone seems to agree that wackos shouldn’t have the opptunity to voice their views in a that is where I disagree, and I think my statement:
should have been worded better. What I was trying to convey was that ANYONE should have the ability to discuss their religous views, and I believe that people are smart enough to make their own decisions.
For example, let’s suppose here in east tennessee a someone totally wacked (insert your favorite wack-o group here) out wanted to speak in a school. I’m all for it, but i doubt anyone would go. Said person may even get “booed” and run out of town.
I hope that makes sense.
I think that’s the poin