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Wrong, wrong, WRONG
Posted By katie allison granju
Again, the Texas authorities continue to handle this case in a brutal, cruel and constitutionally suspect way.
Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, who represents some FLDS members, said mothers were told to gather together inside the coliseum at 9 a.m. but were not told why. Once there, CPS said children 13 months or older were being removed from them. One mother had her 13-month-old daughter literally taken out of her hands, the legal organization said.
Two women who returned to the FLDS ranch, Velvet, 31, and Ruth, 34, later gave tearful accounts of how their young children were taken from them in what they described as a “cold” manner.
Velvet, who did not give a last name, said she has a 13-month-old daughter, Velvet Rose, who is still breast-feeding.
“I don’t know where she is,” Velvet said fighting back tears. “She’s never had a bottle before. I need her back.”
Ruth, who provided no last name, said she has twins who are just older than 12 months, as well as two other children ages 2 and 4.
She said she tried to explain to CPS workers that Judge Barbara Walther had said that women with children between the ages of 12 and 24 months should be able to visit them frequently for breast-feeding and other nurturing.
“But they said, no. They said if you go to the shelter, there is a chance you can visit them. But if you go anywhere else, you’ll never see them again.”
I repeat my earlier concerns: abusing children - and that’s what happening here - is no way to investigate or prevent child abuse.
Apr 25th, 2008
So, when DCS takes a small child away from his or her abusive parents, and it upsets the child and mother, DCS is committing child abuse?!
You’re way off base. So far off, it calls into question your professional abilities as a journalist.
First, you’re only telling one side of the story.
Secondly, you you’re focusing on the, admittedly, painful separation between mothers and young children, the emotions presented by the mothers do not disprove the serious allegations of child abuse and child rape that has alledgedly taken place at the ranch.
Third, like it or not, polygamy is against the law, as are forced marriages of people below the age of consent.
Just because a group keeps to itself doesn’t mean that it can operate outside of the law. And just because people show emotion doesnot mean that they are innocent of taking part in the alleged crimes.
I’m not telling this story. I’m not reporting on it. If I were, I wouldn’t be offering my opinion on it. What I’m doing is commenting on other journalists’ reporting of the facts of a story in another state.
And if an individual parent has been found to be abusing her child, or if that child is at imminent risk of abuse, that child should immediately be removed from that parent, no matter how emotionally wrenching that separation would be. But no one has proved that this mother of this 13 month old child has abused that child or any other child. The only abuse going on in that particular case is the fact that a breastfed baby who has never had a bottle is being taken from her mother and turned over to strangers.
Polygamy is illegal, but the penalty under the law is not loss of one’s children to the state.
Let me be clear that I want to see any individual perpetrators proven to have abused children prosecuted fully, and their children removed. But that’s not what is happening here.
-KAG
still, since the sect’s members aren’t able to provide proof who the children’s parents are - no birth certificates, for example - it seems the state is in the corner of having to take custody (even briefly) of all of them until an investigation can provide some answers. if that 13-month old is really the child of a 13 year old then …
it’s a huge mess down there, but with zero cooperation from the sect and so many children involved, it’s not going to be a winning situation for anyone.
whoops, sorry - i forgot to put my name on that last comment. so that was me. sorry.
OK, I accept your explanation of how you covered the story.
However, when you say “I want to see any individual perpetrators proven to have abused children prosecuted fully, and their children removed. But that’s not what is happening here,” aren’t you ignoring the possibility that the system, or group, is simply a pedophilic ring operating disguised as religious and cultural belief system?
Like a chop shop operating as an auto repair shop?
I think there are a lot of facts and evidence that haven’t been released, and when it is, people will realize that the group was set up to systematically abuse under age girls.
Whether or not children or mothers were effectively brainwashed in order to allow this to happen is not irrelevant. If this is what the group did, then the government must destroy it as they would any criminal gang.
Duke, where this is being handled improperly is that the children are systematically being removed from their mother’s custody with only innuendo and rumor as basis for doing so. A staged phone call from an unverifiable source as probable cause? Please.
I agree with KAG. If there is abuse going on, get rid of the cause. But taking these kids from their mothers at this stage is not right. Much more due diligence is needed, and the CPS here in TX (where I reside) is not known for such discretion.
I do agree with one of your points. There are a lot of facts that have not been revealed yet. But that’s precisely my position. We need to wait until those facts come out before doing something as drastic as separating children from mothers.
One further thought - we set a dangerous precedent when a fabricated phone call can lead to one’s home being invaded, one’s property confiscated, and one’s family being torn apart. Don’t think it can’t happen? If it turns out that the claims against the YFZ residents are unfounded, then it just DID happen.
I heard on television yesterday that 25 of the mothers are themselves children. It appears that there is systematic abuse going on. I’m glad I’m not the one having to make the decisions, because they must be tough ones.
But KAG, I agree that this post is only one side of the story. And I’m sorry, but I’ve watched quite a few of these mothers interviewed now, and their credibility is really in question. At least with me.
You cannot take away someone’s children because they are odd. You cannot take away someone’s children because they hold the belief that girls should “marry” older men while still teens. You cannot take away someone’s children because they don’t trust the U.S. government, and hold bizarre survivalist views. You cannot take away someone’s chldren because they wear prairie clothing and come across as meek and subservient in TV interviews.
The state can only take your child if they can prove that you, an individual, have actually abused your child or that your child is at IMMINENT RISK of being abused by you, as an individual.
I have no doubt that most of these woman probably believe it’s okay for 14 year old girls to be placed in sexual relationships with the men who run their religion. SOME of these women may have actually facilitated this illegal sexual slavery. But you can’t take everyone’s children in a wholesale raid when you don’t have any idea which of these women has done anything that justifies this most radical of state actions. You can’t throw their constitutional rights as citizens and as parents out the window just because some of them may have committed crimes.
There are few things in life more sacred than family bonds. Nothing is more scary than the idea of the government taking your children from you. The standard for this happening - the government taking children from parents - should be exceptionally high.
“You cannot take away someone’s children because they don’t trust the U.S. government, and hold bizarre survivalist views. You cannot take away someone’s chldren because they wear prairie clothing and come across as meek and subservient in TV interviews.”
Oh come on! The practice of polygamy is illegal. That’s why this group “doesn’t trust the government.”
Its prophet (note his picture hanging in the rooms, like Lenin) has been convicted as an acomplice to rape. He’s the head of this organization.
Am I missing something?!? If the reason of existence for this group is to perpetuate the practice of polygamy, even within its own closed society, then the entire basis for its existence is ILLEGAL.
There’s a huge difference between Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who has beliefs that I don’t think are true, and Warren Jeffs who not only believes, but is active in operating and leading a system that is centered upon practicing illegal activities, and they are: polygamy and forced or coerced sexual activity with children.
The society is closed because it has tried to hide, and it has pretty successfully, those illegal activities. The caller was committing fraud when she called authorities, but there have been others who have spoken out against this group, making the same charges, who have largely been ignored, except for the arrest and conviction of its leader, Warren Jeffs.
That’s a good start.